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Joe Roark

Off Topics Coming Back to IH?

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Joe Roark

I have been doing some thinking about the Off Topics area which we tried for a while, but which got out of hand.

Just in the thinking stages at this point, but we may reinstate it on a password protected basis- that is, in order to enter that area you will have to ask for the password. Why? Because you may not agree with some of the posts and rather have arguments go on, be aware that if you CHOOSE to enter the area, your recourse if you read something you do not like is to simply stop clicking on that area (if you choose not to argue in reply) By requiring the password then you cannot accidentally enter it.

It will still be moderated but not as strictly as the other sections of IH. Decorum with be maintained though.

Your thoughts are welcome. Politics and Religion would be welcome, but no porn. I hope book discussions will resume. And no personal attacks will be allowed, but hearty arguments of issues will be.

If your feedback shows minimal interest I will dump the idea. SO, if you are interested indicate so. If you are not interested do nothing because you will not be able to see that section anyway.

Joe

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Liam Tweed

It’s fine Joe 

maybe if we could find a way to separate the off topics posts in the “new activity “ section I think that’s where most of us go to follow the latest posts 

i think without it we find a way anyhow of expressing ourselves on non iron game issues 

politics ? We will burn out pretty quickly once everyone has their say . Maybe I’m only speaking as an outsider but I have so lost interest in US politics other  than watching “our cartoon President “ which is supprisingly good at showing  both Republicans and Democrats in Washington as childish idiots which Frankly is what they are 

religion ? Thats tough .in theory..as a hard core atheist I would probably relish lambasting all the major religions from a historical accuracy perspective .but on the other hand I’m not out to offend believers who would take this personally . So can’t see myself posting on the topic ie better to self regulate 

what I have realized is that generally expressing opinions either in public or on social forums can be pretty dangerous so I think users of off topic will need to be very careful as what they say on social media can follow them around later in life and cause a lot of grief 

a much as we think there is free speech , that’s only in the US everywhere else doesn’t have the 3rd amendment (is it the 3rd or second)

in SA you have to be very careful what you say so by no means is there any pretense of free speach  and I’m not even just talking about racial slurs I’m talking about even a comment on history different perspectives other than the politically correct one will land you in very big trouble . There is only one truth and that is what you are told it is 

Canada in-fact is similar no legislated free speech so Canadians have to also watch their words carefully

Liam

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Joe Roark

I do not think that the threads will be visible to those who have not signed in to that section (just as the mods section does not appear to non mods).

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Jim Bean

I would be interested. Would I post? Maybe, maybe not. However, I like to be aware. I have been exposed to things that many will hopefully never have to see. Fortunately, I have seen the very best in people and representing the vast majority, and unfortunately I have seen some of the worst. Hearing, reading from others whether I might agree or not keeps me informed and balanced.

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Jeff Schanz

To allow more freedom than before; to allow politics and religion...oh boy.  I would like to join just to watch the excitement.  The new section would require a LOT MORE attention.  To separate the two sections is full of good intentions but likely members will join out of curiosity and some won't want to be left out since posting in the Iron History section would likely suffer a great decline. 

 

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Matt Levan
1 hour ago, Liam Tweed said:

It’s fine Joe 

maybe if we could find a way to separate the off topics posts in the “new activity “ section I think that’s where most of us go to follow the latest posts 

i think without it we find a way anyhow of expressing ourselves on non iron game issues 

politics ? We will burn out pretty quickly once everyone has their say . Maybe I’m only speaking as an outsider but I have so lost interest in US politics other  than watching “our cartoon President “ which is supprisingly good at showing  both Republicans and Democrats in Washington as childish idiots which Frankly is what they are 

religion ? Thats tough .in theory..as a hard core atheist I would probably relish lambasting all the major religions from a historical accuracy perspective .but on the other hand I’m not out to offend believers who would take this personally . So can’t see myself posting on the topic ie better to self regulate 

what I have realized is that generally expressing opinions either in public or on social forums can be pretty dangerous so I think users of off topic will need to be very careful as what they say on social media can follow them around later in life and cause a lot of grief 

a much as we think there is free speech , that’s only in the US everywhere else doesn’t have the 3rd amendment (is it the 3rd or second)

in SA you have to be very careful what you say so by no means is there any pretense of free speach  and I’m not even just talking about racial slurs I’m talking about even a comment on history different perspectives other than the politically correct one will land you in very big trouble . There is only one truth and that is what you are told it is 

Canada in-fact is similar no legislated free speech so Canadians have to also watch their words carefully

Liam

It’s drivel like this that will ruin this site if you allow politics and religion.

Edited by Matt Levan
  • Haha 1

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Bob Fett

The logic of having a password to keep those who are not interested out of a section of the forum escapes me. :huh:

Are we to understand that those who have no interest in discussing "off topics" do not have to will power to not visit such a section? :huh:

With this logic other sections of the forum should also be password only such as the sections that deal with collecting old dumbbells which I am not interested in. -_-

I resent being tempted to visit the rusty dumbbell section and being exposed to such things.  I also resent other members having the option of visiting a section I am not interested in.  If they are not interested in exactly what I'm interested in then too bad. :angry:

^_^

I never could understand how upset some members got over a section they could choose not to visit.  They seemed to resent a section like off topics that garnered so much more activity than the rusty dumbbell section.

Hey, not everyone wants to fill their house up with barbell plates, dumbbells, and old bars, etc. but if you do have at it and feel free to discuss your latest acquisition.  I can choose not to visit the section you post it in.

;)

 

 

Edited by Bob Fett
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Joe Roark

Thank you for the response, which has caused me to rethink the religion/politics inclusion.

What if I told you that this section has indeed reopened a month ago and since you could not see it, you could not become upset about what is going on in there?

That in fact is NOT the case, but it illustrates what you would be aware  of in Off Topics if you decided not to participate!

More feedback please.

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carl linich

I did not need it before, and don't need it now.

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Joe Roark
1 minute ago, carl linich said:

I did not need it before, and don't need it now.

Carl, just curious. Are there other sections of IH that you do not need (that is, do not visit)?

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carl linich

Joe, I look at all unread content each day. I like most of what is posted. I just don't need off topics.

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Joe Roark
4 minutes ago, carl linich said:

Joe, I look at all unread content each day. I like most of what is posted. I just don't need off topics.

Thanks, Carl.

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Joe Schwartz

Joe,

Off Topics may have been fine in the past - I don't specifically recall what all was discussed, but I do typically look at most post titles and choose to read based on interest.  I thought that religion and politics were not allowed previously.

Maybe the following points could be taken into account to help make a decision:

  1. What is the purpose of this forum?  Do we come to this site to discuss iron-related topics or to discuss other topics (or both)?
  2. Will discussion of religion and politics cause problems?  Discussion of religion and politics if perfectly fine, as long as I agree with you.  I think you understand what I mean.  This is a slippery slope.

I much prefer to discuss in person, topics where people may strongly disagree.

I know we are all adults, and theoretically should be able to talk about almost everything without setting off others, but if you allow discussion on religion and politics, I think it will cause problems.

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Joe Roark
1 hour ago, Joe Schwartz said:

Joe,

Off Topics may have been fine in the past - I don't specifically recall what all was discussed, but I do typically look at most post titles and choose to read based on interest.  I thought that religion and politics were not allowed previously.

Maybe the following points could be taken into account to help make a decision:

  1. What is the purpose of this forum?  Do we come to this site to discuss iron-related topics or to discuss other topics (or both)?
  2. Will discussion of religion and politics cause problems?  Discussion of religion and politics if perfectly fine, as long as I agree with you.  I think you understand what I mean.  This is a slippery slope.

I much prefer to discuss in person, topics where people may strongly disagree.

I know we are all adults, and theoretically should be able to talk about almost everything without setting off others, but if you allow discussion on religion and politics, I think it will cause problems.

Valid questions. No, I hope people do not come to this forum for off topics, but, more and more, with less subtlety, off topics statements and entering on topic threads. I was thinking that perhaps off topics would become a corral for such maverick statements, but have come to realize, that someone interrupting the flow of a thread by inserting an offshoot-offtopic statement will be unlikely to think to himself, 'Oh- I have something to add, so I will go to off topics and make my point'. More likely, they will insert it where it is not welcome.

Yes, religion and politics [R&P] are the two most slippery of subjects. Porn is not so much so, because those who want to discuss it can easily (I hope ) understand that others (here at least) do not. Perhaps it is best to leave R&P in the same locked safe as porn.

I prefer discussing books or movies in off topics because I gained some interesting suggestions for books to read.

By Friday I hope to have matters set and ready to launch. But feedback here will sway me, so if any other member has an opinion, NOW would be the time to express it.

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Liam Tweed
4 hours ago, Matt Levan said:

It’s drivel like this that will ruin this site if you allow politics and religion.

Fair comment and fair warning  to all of us Matt

You proved my point posting on these two topics really is a wast of tome and is just going to upset people

I’m very glad you posted that 

fantastic life lesson on social media 

many thanks seriously

 

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David Pelto

I would be interested in seeing the off topic section return in some way, shape, or form. It will likely

require a good bit of moderation, and a good idea may be to have it be a working model, able to be

adjusted based on how things go.

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Joe Roark
57 minutes ago, David Pelto said:

I would be interested in seeing the off topic section return in some way, shape, or form. It will likely

require a good bit of moderation, and a good idea may be to have it be a working model, able to be

adjusted based on how things go.

I will not require the other mods to help with the off topics section- they did not sign on for that. It will be on me to moderate and I have less time that I had a few months ago. So if it gets off the rails it will, again, be shut down.

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Chris Rice

I recall a few "religious" threads that I enjoyed in the past that didn't get out of hand - mostly about books covering religion and it's overall development if I recall.  Politics I get my fill of other places.  Like others I hit the unread posts thingy and look at those that interest me.  I'm not a collector but at times see something of interest - same with bodybuilding etc.  Everything on Iron History is not of interest to me.  I imagine Off Topics would be the same for me.  It's easy enough to ignore things I don't care about.

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Thomas Klose
17 hours ago, Liam Tweed said:

It’s fine Joe 

maybe if we could find a way to separate the off topics posts in the “new activity “ section I think that’s where most of us go to follow the latest posts 

i think without it we find a way anyhow of expressing ourselves on non iron game issues 

politics ? We will burn out pretty quickly once everyone has their say . Maybe I’m only speaking as an outsider but I have so lost interest in US politics other  than watching “our cartoon President “ which is supprisingly good at showing  both Republicans and Democrats in Washington as childish idiots which Frankly is what they are 

religion ? Thats tough .in theory..as a hard core atheist I would probably relish lambasting all the major religions from a historical accuracy perspective .but on the other hand I’m not out to offend believers who would take this personally . So can’t see myself posting on the topic ie better to self regulate 

what I have realized is that generally expressing opinions either in public or on social forums can be pretty dangerous so I think users of off topic will need to be very careful as what they say on social media can follow them around later in life and cause a lot of grief 

a much as we think there is free speech , that’s only in the US everywhere else doesn’t have the 3rd amendment (is it the 3rd or second)

in SA you have to be very careful what you say so by no means is there any pretense of free speach  and I’m not even just talking about racial slurs I’m talking about even a comment on history different perspectives other than the politically correct one will land you in very big trouble . There is only one truth and that is what you are told it is 

Canada in-fact is similar no legislated free speech so Canadians have to also watch their words carefully

Liam

Liam,

Germany has "free speech" ( free opinion) as a basic law as long as it does not hurt anyone else. This of course a theoretical term. In reality it is very difficult, esp. with Germany´s history.

"Off Topic" is interesting but I think only out of curiosity.

Politics and religion ... no good idea..It will not result in a good , respectful discussion.

The world order is changing rather fast. Friends and allies are now considered opponents.

We should keep all of this out of IH.

Thomas

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Jim Bean

I am new (renewed) here, so I defer to the majority and those who have far more knowledge and history than I. However, I also like to learn. Even from those who I might strongly disagree with. Even with the mainstream topics I might strongly disagree (bench press, or injuries, or....), but I read and I learn. Once in a while it changes my personal perspective,. Other times, it doesn't. I think that if the posting community used this as a method to promote a personal agenda rather than to introduce healthy debate it would fail.

Let me throw some topics out there for you to consider as candidates if you would open the proposed forum up. These are not in my humble opinion mainstream to the site, but would have a segue that I personally would enjoy reading and possibly participating in discussion and debate:

  • Self-Defense, Martial Arts Training  - Weights or no Weights ?  (when I started many, many years ago there had been a strong anti-lifting bias)
  • Biblical History regarding health, and more of a curiosity for me. Are the biblical verses regarding health general guidance or is there some historical evidence of fitness training ? What about the stories of Samson, David and Goliath ?
  • What ever happened to the President's Council on Physical Fitness ?  I never hear about it any more (if I remember correctly and historically Arnold was a chair person). Why has this lost focus ?
  • Should political representatives or relatives be allowed to recommend or mandate the diet for children in school ?
  • What do people like Andre Rush and General Sele think about the importance of training ? (I am connected to Chef Rush through another social media venue and in addition to his physical persona he has some very strong beliefs about or military and vets, and I am also connected with retired General Sele who trains daily)
  • Why doesn't our government(s) make weight training a mandatory class for secondary education ? 
  • Should Athletes use their celebrity and notoriety to promote a political agenda rather than a sports or health related one ?
  • Training approach and techniques applied by armed forces. I have trained and trained with some of the best. There is also a great documentary from a few years back of a SF unit (Green Berets) in Afghanistan where several of the guys were into lifting when back at base. There are also many small cameos of equipment and workouts at camps and bases and I can confirm they do exist and for many of the units, they are in frequent use. As another example and through my training company, I am also connected with several Navy Seals (I am not a Seal) and there are some interesting perspectives, stories, techniques, and debates about lifting.

You might disagree and perhaps a few of the above would make the cut in the existing forum topics. While others might introduce some controversy. If you decide against, note that I am happy to have been offered my return to the site, if you move forward I am interested in topics such as the above even if they become somewhat contentious. As I had described, I like to learn and hear others perspectives, even when I might strongly disagree. It helps me to be balanced. Thoughts ?

 

 

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Joe Roark
32 minutes ago, Jim Bean said:

I am new (renewed) here, so I defer to the majority and those who have far more knowledge and history than I. However, I also like to learn. Even from those who I might strongly disagree with. Even with the mainstream topics I might strongly disagree (bench press, or injuries, or....), but I read and I learn. Once in a while it changes my personal perspective,. Other times, it doesn't. I think that if the posting community used this as a method to promote a personal agenda rather than to introduce healthy debate it would fail.

Let me throw some topics out there for you to consider as candidates if you would open the proposed forum up. These are not in my humble opinion mainstream to the site, but would have a segue that I personally would enjoy reading and possibly participating in discussion and debate:

  • Self-Defense, Martial Arts Training  - Weights or no Weights ?  (when I started many, many years ago there had been a strong anti-lifting bias)
  • Biblical History regarding health, and more of a curiosity for me. Are the biblical verses regarding health general guidance or is there some historical evidence of fitness training ? What about the stories of Samson, David and Goliath ?
  • What ever happened to the President's Council on Physical Fitness ?  I never hear about it any more (if I remember correctly and historically Arnold was a chair person). Why has this lost focus ?
  • Should political representatives or relatives be allowed to recommend or mandate the diet for children in school ?
  • What do people like Andre Rush and General Sele think about the importance of training ? (I am connected to Chef Rush through another social media venue and in addition to his physical persona he has some very strong beliefs about or military and vets, and I am also connected with retired General Sele who trains daily)
  • Why doesn't our government(s) make weight training a mandatory class for secondary education ? 
  • Should Athletes use their celebrity and notoriety to promote a political agenda rather than a sports or health related one ?
  • Training approach and techniques applied by armed forces. I have trained and trained with some of the best. There is also a great documentary from a few years back of a SF unit (Green Berets) in Afghanistan where several of the guys were into lifting when back at base. There are also many small cameos of equipment and workouts at camps and bases and I can confirm they do exist and for many of the units, they are in frequent use. As another example and through my training company, I am also connected with several Navy Seals (I am not a Seal) and there are some interesting perspectives, stories, techniques, and debates about lifting.

You might disagree and perhaps a few of the above would make the cut in the existing forum topics. While others might introduce some controversy. If you decide against, note that I am happy to have been offered my return to the site, if you move forward I am interested in topics such as the above even if they become somewhat contentious. As I had described, I like to learn and hear others perspectives, even when I might strongly disagree. It helps me to be balanced. Thoughts ?

 

 

Some of those would be pristine if we could stay on topic. For example, many people who have not read the Bible nonetheless have strong opinions about it. As someone with a lengthy awareness of the Bible (studied for the ministry at one point) it is a topic that I feel comfortable commenting on- especially the New Testament. Of course, people are welcome to share opinion on it if they have not read it, but sometimes it seems strange. A book club during its monthly meetings should involve only people who have read the book for that month.

I like several of your other suggestions also. 

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Blaise Boscaccy

Please no politics, religion, and world coming to an end discussion. Go to Facebook if you need a argument.

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Chris Rice
2 hours ago, Jim Bean said:

I am new (renewed) here, so I defer to the majority and those who have far more knowledge and history than I. However, I also like to learn. Even from those who I might strongly disagree with. Even with the mainstream topics I might strongly disagree (bench press, or injuries, or....), but I read and I learn. Once in a while it changes my personal perspective,. Other times, it doesn't. I think that if the posting community used this as a method to promote a personal agenda rather than to introduce healthy debate it would fail.

Let me throw some topics out there for you to consider as candidates if you would open the proposed forum up. These are not in my humble opinion mainstream to the site, but would have a segue that I personally would enjoy reading and possibly participating in discussion and debate:

  • Self-Defense, Martial Arts Training  - Weights or no Weights ?  (when I started many, many years ago there had been a strong anti-lifting bias)
  • Biblical History regarding health, and more of a curiosity for me. Are the biblical verses regarding health general guidance or is there some historical evidence of fitness training ? What about the stories of Samson, David and Goliath ?
  • What ever happened to the President's Council on Physical Fitness ?  I never hear about it any more (if I remember correctly and historically Arnold was a chair person). Why has this lost focus ?
  • Should political representatives or relatives be allowed to recommend or mandate the diet for children in school ?
  • What do people like Andre Rush and General Sele think about the importance of training ? (I am connected to Chef Rush through another social media venue and in addition to his physical persona he has some very strong beliefs about or military and vets, and I am also connected with retired General Sele who trains daily)
  • Why doesn't our government(s) make weight training a mandatory class for secondary education ? 
  • Should Athletes use their celebrity and notoriety to promote a political agenda rather than a sports or health related one ?
  • Training approach and techniques applied by armed forces. I have trained and trained with some of the best. There is also a great documentary from a few years back of a SF unit (Green Berets) in Afghanistan where several of the guys were into lifting when back at base. There are also many small cameos of equipment and workouts at camps and bases and I can confirm they do exist and for many of the units, they are in frequent use. As another example and through my training company, I am also connected with several Navy Seals (I am not a Seal) and there are some interesting perspectives, stories, techniques, and debates about lifting.

You might disagree and perhaps a few of the above would make the cut in the existing forum topics. While others might introduce some controversy. If you decide against, note that I am happy to have been offered my return to the site, if you move forward I am interested in topics such as the above even if they become somewhat contentious. As I had described, I like to learn and hear others perspectives, even when I might strongly disagree. It helps me to be balanced. Thoughts ?

 

 

I would enjoy discussing (more learning) about the special forces training (not really off topic I guess.)  I would like to know more about their stance on bodyweight - weights - LSD and intervals etc.  

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Thomas Klose
21 minutes ago, Chris Rice said:

I would enjoy discussing (more learning) about the special forces training (not really off topic I guess.)  I would like to know more about their stance on bodyweight - weights - LSD and intervals etc.  

Chris,

Probably start a thread in the sections "Other sports" or "Training Talk".

 

Happy New Year,

Thomas

 

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Bob Wildes
3 hours ago, Blaise Boscaccy said:

Please no politics, religion, and world coming to an end discussion. Go to Facebook if you need a argument.

You should put that under your avatar. Well said.

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