New with history questions from Mobile, AL

[Jason Poeth 0]

I have recently become obsessed with learning more about the early history of weightlifting, powerlifting, strongman...well...the early IronHistory. So anyway this site popped up on a search and I jacked at the possibilities of future knowledge that can be gained here!!! Anyway, I haven't even got a chance to check the site out but I wanted to post something quick to say hi to everyone.

A little about myself. I own a gym in Mobile AL. and am also an assistant weightlifting coach for the Gayle Hatch Weightlifting Team. I have trained under Coach Hatch for the last 13 years and have just started to produced a few lifters that do ok nationally and made a few international teams. Along with weightlifting our gym works with athletes of all sports providing them speed, strength (using a Hatch System of Olympic-Style strength training), and combine training for middle school, high school, college, and professional athletes.

I have spent the past 13 years implementing, and closely studying, the "Hatch System" of strength training and weightlifting. I have recently been interested in the connection of Alvin Roy (Coach Hatch's Mentor) to both Bob Hoffman and Louis Riecke. Both Alvin and Louis had huge impact in Coach Hatch's early life and both had a connection (either worked with or trained under) Bob Hoffman. I would love to find as much legitimate information on training methodology that Bob used in his early years (while Alvin had contact with him) and a bit later when Louis was training under him. I know how both the Russian and Bulgarian programs had an impact on the forming of the "Hatch System" but I am interested to see how the earlier influences of the methodologies used by Alivin Roy and Louis Riecke (through Bob Hoffman) influenced the development of such a complex and dynamic training system. I am excited on the possibilities that this forum can help provide or give some guided direction in this subject area. I am very interested in just how far "The Rabbit Hole" goes in the connection of my mentor to the origins and icons of weightlifting and iron history and how they might have affected his training methodologies and therefore my own as well.

Looking forward to hearing back,

Jason Poeth

[Joe Roark 5,792]

Jason, welcome to ironhistory.com

Do you by chance subscribe to Iron Game History from the U of Texas?

[Jarett Hulse 1,086]

Welcome!

[Robert Bourrell 47]

Welcome aboard Jason.

[Jason Poeth 0]

Hey Joe. No I haven't subscribed to Iron Game History yet. To be honest I havent spent a lot of time on the internet lately. This little project has gotten me back on. I will def. check it out.

[Ulf Salvin 294]

Hello Jason, and welcome.

Regarding Hoffman, the bulgarian system etc. There is a story (the source escapes me for the moment) that when asked where they (russians/bulgarians) got their ideas, they answered - perplexed - "well, we got most of it from the old York System..."

Someone here is sure to know where I read this!?

In one of the earlier issues of IGH there is a biography on Alvin Roy. It can be found on the net.

[Wes Rittenhouse 4]

Welcome Jason

[Jason Poeth 0]

Hey Joe..I know it's been about a week since I've been on her but I did get a chance to check out the Iron Game History from the U of Texas and a ton of great info there! And Mr. Salvin I would love to get my hands on that article!! That is some of the type of information I'm looking for...that and any training methodology for the old York system in itself...thanks for all your help

Jason

[Jarett Hulse 1,086]

I don't have it on me, as I am moving next week and it is packed. But last week i was reading an article written by Hoffman in I believe a 1968 (maybe 67) issue of Muscular Development in which he talked about his early training and how he developed the York courses by modifying the Milo courses. The point of the article was that his york courses were still good, despite all the new fancy systems on the 60s. If interested and you can't find it, I may be able to get it for you in a coup,e of weeks.

[Richard Light 3]

Jason, I'm not sure of the questions that you are asking. That is, are you interested in how Louis Rieke's and Alvin Roy's strength training techniques have been used by athletes, such as for football, (since both men were pioneers in this field) or how their training has influenced olympic lifting?

Riecke is known for his Riecke Machine ("Riecke Rack") and his extensive use of isometrics. Alvin Roy had one of these machines outside, in the back of his gym in Baton Rouge. Alvin Roy emphasized speed, especially in terms of quickness. He emphasized speed in high pulls and power clean techniques. Dr. Ken Leistner spent time at Alvin Roy's gym in the early 1960's learning from Alvin. You can find some info on these machines by googling "Riecke Rack."

Riecke was trained in his early years by Robert (Bob) Samuels at the New Orleans Athletic Club (NOAC). Mr. Samuels had a tremendous amount respect and admiration for Hoffman and York and the York System of training. Mr. Samuels gave me the York training courses about 45 years ago, and he helped me a great deal with my questions. (Mr. Samuels was a lifting coach and Southern AAU Chairman as well).

Gayle Hatch is a great coach, and I enjoyed training at the Baton Rouge YMCA back in the early 1970's in the evenings when Gayle coached his lifters in the old gym there. He provided a tremendous atmosphere of hard work with the enjoyment of lifting. (I went to LSU from 1972-1976).

You may also want to get in touch with Bill Hinbern for copies of the York Courses.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Richard Light

[Richard Light 3]

Jason, you may want to also check the achives of this web-site for old Strength and Health (York) articles regarding Louis Riecke and Alvin Roy, since this would provide a good contemporaneous record of their training theories at that time. As mentioned, Dr. Ken Leistner would also be a good resource in this regard.

[Dale Credico 2,259]

Hey Jason, glad you're here.

Google books isn't a bad place to look for some free things.

Just do a Google search for 'google books'. Click on the link you'll get, then, when you're at the google books site, put in something like "Muscle, Smoke & Mirrors Volume 2" or "Muscletown USA" and you'll get, in these two cases, almost the entire books. I was surprised to see those two and how much of them is included. Click on the preview and start scrolling through the books you choose. You can search entire books for specific names, words etc. as well.

There's a little in both on the topics you mentioned. Hope that helps.

There's a very large collection of Bob Hoffman material at this site:

http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Hoffman/hoffmanindex.htm

Click on the book you choose and start digging for the info you want.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Dale Credico

[Richard Light 3]

If the question is, "To what extent has the York Barbell Courses influenced Louis Riecke and Alvin Roy?", I don't know.

But one person who may have some idea is Brooks D. Kubik who has written extensively on the history of the York Courses, the history of York, and its lifters. One of his recent books, "Legacy of Iron." discusses the York courses in detail.

Brooks can be contacted through his web site (brookskubik.com).

Edited August 10, 2012 by Richard Light

[Jason Poeth 0]

Hey Richard,

That is my question...To what extent the York Training program had on the development of the programs of both Alvin Roy and Louis Reicke. I would like to get as much information on how York trained their weightlifters. I know that Alvin modeled a lot of his program after Bob Hoffman and the York program and I know that Louis Reicke was also highly influenced as well. I am trying to see how much of the old York system carried over into Alvin and Louis's system, and since both of them influenced Coach Hatch...how much of that system carried over into Coach Hatch's system. Coach Hatch will tell you that both the type of training that both the Russians an Bulgarians were doing influenced his system greatly, but Coach Hatch also started his program before a lot of that information on those two different system started coming out so I know that the system that Alvin and Louis used (from York Barbell??) also had a major impact in the creation of his program as well.

I have coached under Coach Hatch for almost 13 years and have trained weightlifters under his system from a beginner to senior levels. I know his system fairly well and know that it is VERY different to how a lot of other coaches that use the Olympic lifts in their programs with their athletes. The system has been very successful for Coach Hatch and others that use it such as myself. I am intrigued at how his system was created, since it is so different, and what influenced it's creation. So since Alvin and Louis mentored Coach Hatch and Bob Hoffman mentored them...so my search has turned to how Bob Hoffman trained his Weightlifters to see if I can see any of his influence in Coach Hatch's program.

I found it interesting to see if Bob Hoffman's program influenced both the Russians and Bulgarian programs...I never heard that before but it does make sense that they would study what the Americans were doing at that time as they developed their program. So any info on that would be great if anyone can find it.

I appreciate the help and have been looking at the recourses people have provided so far...this site is a gold mine of lost information!!! Thank You

Jason

Edited August 16, 2012 by Jason Poeth

[Ulf Salvin 294]

Might be something of interest here:

http://www.pabook.libraries.psu.edu/palitmap/YorkBarbell.html

[Wes Rittenhouse 4]

Interesting reading.

[David Marker 32]

Glad to have you amongst us Jason.