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      Of globed barbells and bellies swelled. Of beer garden lifting and overhead shifting. The days when abuse meant too many steaks chased down by too much beer.

      • Ulf Salvin
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    • Chris McCarthy
      My interest piqued I went and read the CAS Verdict on the Chand case, which is a) a very interesting read and b ) covers most of the points raised in this thread quite directly. I would post a link but my Mobile Device says "No".
    • Ken Sprague
      I mistakenly posted this article in another thread. Adds context to the argument.
    • Chris McCarthy
      Chromosomes aren't a definitive decider either, unfortunately.  
    • Liam Tweed
      Chris we have all come cross female athletes with natural high levels of T , I even dated one for a while , very muscular and a terrific athlete and yes all female and a great mother of a daughter.. boy did she have a temper though,  I was always in trouble !!! I think they are on the right track in removing hormones for the definition of gender I have to assume that the Y chromosome is the definitive decider ? surely that is all the gender testing that is required I suspect that too is not so simple the issue is gender doesn't really matter that much anymore in society but in Sport it does in order to ensure fairness for women ,so society and sport now appear out of sync.  Read Kens article post on this in the Olympics section its spot on. if we are to exclude anyone with freakish genetics there would have been no Bolt and the world would be the worse for it Liam
    • Chris McCarthy
      No problem Liam, I find this area extremely interesting and would happily talk about it at length - the problem is that it is an extremely complicated subject and, as I said above, is not particularly well understood even to this day. The problem with Testosterone levels as a simple tool is that, even without use of PED's - ie.if you go to the busiest street in your local city - you will find women (women who can bear children, have female appearance etc) who will have higher tested testosterone levels than some of the men (and, again, these men can father children, grow beards etc). I know you wanted to avoid the definition of Female and Male from your Opening Post, and this is going beyond that, but that fine point really is the crux of that issue I think.
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